Monday, September 27, 2010

Villiage Voice Article On ICP Fans Against Juggalos

A little while after GOTJ '10, Camille Dodero of the Village Voice contacted me and wanted to ask me a few questions about this site and what it means. What I sent her was a long response answering all of her questions. When I saw that this site was only featured by name on the final article covering GOTJ '10, it didn't surprise me. However, I was very surprised to see this earlier this afternoon:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/archives/2010/09/icp_fans_against_juggalos.php

It's an article, by her, entitled The Human Behind ICP Fans Against Juggalos Speaks. And, I assume, I am listed under "Juggalo Of The Day". It features all of the answers I have given (something I was actually planning on posting up here). It also features one of this site's latest videos: The South, The Rich, and The Insane Clown Posse.

In an author's note, when she asked the Insane Clown Posse if they had ever heard of this site, they said no. Not a real shocker there. However, Shaggy 2 Dope said, "It's probably some moron just trying to have people talk about him."

That comment is a little bit of a low blow. While I did allude that ICP's image is now that of tree huggers, I overall acknowledged their success and commended them for their persistence and dedication to their work. Let's face it: they're geniuses. Not to mention that I called ICP real role models. Not through their music, but how it was made, and how they built themselves up an empire out of nothing.

Again, geniuses.

I will admit that as time goes on, I'm meeting more and more juggalos (in real life and online) who are dedicated to the idea of a "juggalo family". And I don't mean cult-mentality, you're-with-us-or-you're-against-us dedicated. Now, if a majority of juggalos truly consists of these types of individuals, then look at this site as speaking out against the fakes. The ignorant ones who claim "family", but don't even know what that means. And in turn end up giving "juggalos" a bad name. Just like in the song Hound Dogs, or Bury Me Alive. They're not a dying breed. Just because they know the track list to RiddleBox doesn't make them legit. It makes them informed.

Not to mention, you constantly got some juggalos always willing to tell their sob stories about how hard it was growing up. So much so, that it suspiciously seems a little false. If you had a bad childhood, that really sucks. Get on some meds, get over it and move on with your life. And realize it isn't an excuse to do some stupid shit. No one has it easy growing up, unless your last name is Jonas.

One of the reasons why I keep up anonymity is because I don't want this whole site to seem personal. I want to bring some things to light that juggalos don't see. To get them to look at this whole thing realistically, and if it has to do with "life", then to treat it like one. Someone once asked, "If it's about that, then why call it ICP Fans Against Juggalos?"

Well, what do you suggest I call it?

Ninjas Against Juggalos?

Juggalos Against Juggalos?

Ninjalos Against Juggalos?

Juggalos Against The Juggalo Image?

Juggalos Against The Class Of Juggalos That Give Real Juggalos A Bad Name By Acting Incredibly Ignorant And That Don't Know How To Act, Practice What They Preach, Or Know A Thing About Family?

People see the name and think that it's so cut and dry right away, without trying to get to know what it's about. Isn't that what most juggalos are against: don't judge us until you know us? You don't have to agree with everything, but if you have an open mind, at least it'll get you to think a little bit about everything having to do with juggalos in general.

Shaggy judged this site right away; if the whole world were like that, ICP most likely wouldn't have any fans.

Shaggy, this site isn't about me. I'm trying to bring the spotlight back on what you guys used to be about. I'm putting all the attention on you. I could give a fuck if people are talking about me or not. This site is not so much a "fuck you" to all juggalos as it is a "fuck you" to "juggalos" who are faker than a set of tits in Hollywood, but are acknowledged as real without question (especially scene jumpers), giving your true type a bad name. And not to the public, but to eachother. No one else is giving the "fuck you" to those people (who do deserve it) unless it's a hater; and even then, the "fuck you" is to everyone else. You can think I'm a hater, but that won't change the fact that you and J will always have my undying respect and gratitude.

MCL

And if you're asking what kind of awards I won in film, the answer is none. I added that as a sarcastic joke regarding anonymity at the end of the response (while alluding to my YouTube account). Unless they give out film awards to people who dabble in A/V NLE suites while trying to convey a message at the same time, I doubt I'll be winning any.

11 comments:

  1. I've been a fan of ICP for about as long as you have and when I first heard about this site I wanted to jump on board. Juggalos, like you mention in the above interview, give ICP fans a bad name by failing to live up to their own alleged moral code.

    But then I read your post.

    In the interview you start off by saying how you liked ICP because it scared parents and was frightening and blah blah blah. Then you later complain that new juggalos are jumping into the scene to rebel against parents.

    You also mentioned that ICP started the religious stuff on The Wraith and that it came out of nowhere. This is a fallacy. For as long as I've listened to ICP I've argued the opposite. Aside from Carnival Of Carnage, every ICP album has had a spiritual component. The wraith was the pinnacle of that but it was hardly a surprise.

    Ringmaster, for example, uses clearly spiritual words to discuss human behavior that they believe to be "evil" such as the greedy and the racist.

    The family stuff, at least the way I see it, is mostly BS. I live outside of los angeles and there are next to no juggalos out here so I've never had the chance to build the friendships that so many of the younger juggalos claim to have and I'm okay with it. I liked ICP for their social commentary, their spirituality, their horror elements and their anger, not for the friends I'd made through them. But I've learned to adapt the idea of Much Clown Love and juggalo family to a concept long held by Buddhists, that being the idea of Loving Kindness. The concept is that if you love someone you treat them well. It is not necessarily familial, romantic or platonic love but rather an attitude towards life where one lives and tries to behave with kindness towards everybody.

    I really wanted to like what you have going on here but you come off as someone with a chip on his(or her) shoulder.

    I do like that you pointed out how most of their fans nowadays are the very people they've rapped about killing for so many years. I've said the same thing many times. It broke my heart when skinheads showed up at an ICP show wearing hatchetman tats. I wanted to kill them fuckers.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Robbizzle,

    That's a good philosophy you have. And while I can agree that their past works have had small amounts of spirituality, The Wraith was pretty much a turn in another direction. I wouldn't say it was heading towards Satanism, but something else on its own. And it was pounding this message in doses that were overshadowing the commentary. At least, that's what I found.

    I didn't like ICP just because it scared everyone. I said in the interview, I related to it a lot. It was the first music that I heard that I could relate to in almost every way: the anger, the frustration, poverty, pollution, gang violence and the wish that the "higher class" could know exactly what it feels like. The fact that it scared everyone else was icing on the cake. Most of these kids come in "becoming juggalos", and they don't know shit about any of that. They'll claim the name because they like the music, and need a "scene" to jump to. I'm not saying all are like that, though. There's no doubt that a 13 year old new juggalo feels all of the above somewhere.

    We've been speaking the truth, and no one listens. I've seen skinhead "juggalos", too. I saw a guy with a huge skinheaded hatchetman tattoo that had a black swastika in the middle of its head. It's just a spit right in the face of Psychopathic.

    If you still believe I have a chip on my shoulder, it's cool. Thanks for checking out the site anyway. At least you agreed with most of what was said.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hey, it's me again.
    I like how he worded it..."chip on your shoulder"...but I want to add to it.
    I don't think you have a "chip on your shoulder", you actually sound like the 100s of other Juggalos I've seen popping up since The Wraith. Same arguement, same complaint.
    But my question is what makes you any different than any of these other anonymous online personas claiming to have "been down since..."...nobody cares.
    It's like what Mono says in Twiztids new album...it's time for people to stand up and start acting. You have to give something up, shit doesn't come for free. Your not gonna change the masses sitting at a computer screen, drinking Faygo, bitching.
    That being said I don't think creating more rifts in the family is doing anything but bad. Your causing more negativity. If your upset about there not being a fam go out and show people what family is supposed to be about. Don't bitch. The only difference between you and the others is you have a website that's easy to Google.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "You have to give something up, shit doesn't come for free."

    What does that have to do with anything you were talking about? Do you mean sacrifice? And where would that fit into the point you were trying to make?

    And how am I like the "countless others"?

    I'm not special. I know that. I'm not trying to be some revolutionary idealist. There's not one corner of the internet that's saying the shit that's on Real Juggalo's minds. And that's what this is about. The guy above, while he didn't agree with everything, he still agreed in general. And the shit that he doesn't agree with, someone else does agree with.

    I ain't looking to be on people's minds. I ain't looking to get attention all on me. If I wanted that, I could get it easy. I'm just saying what no one else is.

    And bandwagon dickriders like "Big" need the negativity. As days pass, and I'm meeting more like-minded juggalos (and some who aren't, but still seem down), I can get behind the idea of "family" a little bit more. But not with dickriders just looking to belong. You say "starting rifts", I say "weeding out".

    ReplyDelete
  5. Giving something up meaning sacrifce, as I'm sure you already knew. Sacrifice means doing something other than just posting things on a website. Now your informed.

    My point was and is that you need to do something other than sit behind a computer screen, in air conditioning, pretty much bitching if you actually want to try and change anything. I also said, that it seems to me that the only difference between you and the average disgruntled Juggalo on juggalonews.com is that you got yourself a website and are trying to change the way other people think, and what they believe...in a negative way.

    I never said you were special. In fact I pretty much asked you what was so special about you, that you expect people to change they way they think, what they believe, and a lifestyle that makes them happy...because you got your panties in a twist.

    Go to juggalonews.com and you'll see alot of "real juggalos" voicing their opinions. Is that not "one corner of the internet" that is saying what is on their minds? Hell, they are the ones that post everything.

    And, like I said...you can say your a "real juggalo" all day and that this is a site for "real juggalos" but you just sound like the countless people claiming they have "been down since...(whenever)" just to have say over others.

    I don't know who "Big" is, and your right some people need the negativity, BUT thats something that can really only be dealt with on a Juggalo to Juggalo basis. You can't just wildy spray negativity into the Juggalo world, that wont fix anything. In fact, I believe 100% that it will make things worse.

    I also thought of something else too. Your a smart guy, and this website is well written. If your trying to weed out the dumb people (which is what I assume we are classifying them as) then half of them aren't going to read half of one of your posts. They will immediatlely write you off. "Fuk dat ima Juggalo fo Lyfe." Get it?

    I'm not saying I completely disagree with you. I just don't want this to be one of those things where you just sit on the internet and bitch for a few years, and then disappear because nothing happened. I'll even be willing to get behind a "weed out the dumbasses" cause, if I knew you we're really that commited, and that the outcome would mean a better Juggalo community. I'm sure others would too. There's gotta be sacrifice though. The Juggalo world doesn't exist entirely online. Therefor, I say something has to be done in real life for any of this to actually mean anything.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Who said I was trying to have say over anyone? I haven't been using the "down since (whenever)" anywhere. The reason why it says in that article is because the woman asked, "How long have you been listening to ICP?" What should I have said to that? This ain't about "Bitch, I been down since C.O.C., so you listen to me, motherfucker!" This is more about "Bitch, stop acting like a fucking fool, get a fucking clue, and if you're just posing because you're looking to belong, then GTFO."

    Juggalo News is a community/news site. All the "commentary" is done in the comments. And while there are "Real Juggalos" on that site, they wouldn't dare talk about the type of shit that's on here because it'll be looked at as trying to instigate a flame war. And you know the rest of the story.

    I'm not looking to change how people think. Like you said: this site is for Real Juggalos. I don't care if the fakes read this shit. I know that they'll pass it off; but the Real Juggalos will take another look. This site isn't meant to change everything on its own. It's meant to inspire the Real Juggalos to help make the changes happen. So it's snaps in their head, and they start to think, "Fuck, he's right. This is fucked up." Then the change can happen.

    Just because I don't openly discuss it doesn't mean this is the only thing I do in the juggalo community. Anytime I see juggalos, I always strike up a conversation and we start sharing ideas. We start learning from each other, and either weaken their resolve to call themselves a juggalo or make it stronger. And it's never been through hurling negativity at them. About a week ago, I met a juggalo on the street who said he loves ICP and Twiztid, but he can't relate. He still insisted that he was a juggalo.

    I asked him, "How can you be a juggalo if you don't relate?"

    He responded, "Because I can feel it."

    Then I asked, "If you can't relate, how can you feel it?"

    He just looked at me confused and said, "I don't know." After that, I didn't assure him that he wasn't a real juggalo. But I'm sure once he got home, one of his juggalo friends said, "Fuk dat guy! U a juggalo!" just because he's his friend (and that's what friends do).

    This isn't meant to condemn, it's meant to inspire. If you got any ideas on more ways to do it, bring them on. Like I said, I can't do it alone. Something offline definitely needs to be done, but with J and Shaggz backing juggalos, fake and real alike, it's going to be a bigger challenge.

    One more thing. Don't assume I have luxuries like A/C. Even if I did, I really don't need it now. And thanks for the compliments.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I actually did have an idea, but I'm on my PS3 right now. I'll comment or send you an e-mail from my computer later this afternoon.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I think this is exactly what "getting out there and doing something" means. The internet, blogs, youtube, email, etc. are the number one means of communication besides cellphones nowadays, and most cellphones carry all the aforementioned. I think this is great, and I think that getting this idea out is important. I know at least 10-15 people I grew up with, all who called, and many who still call themselves Juggalos, who feel this exact same way; too many scensters, low-lifes, and fakes have ruined it for many of us, others don't care as long as they have something to belong to, and the rest I'll assume just don't see it.

    Man, I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm 26 and started listening to ICP in 1999, really I started listening to Twiztid and became enamered by ICP along the way. I bump ol' skool psychopathic all the time, but around the time of Wraith Shangri la I started to feel a growing disconnect with the new artists and music of all psychopathic. I tried to listen to some of the stuff that was being put out (I'll get more specific if I get a response, but trying to keep it somewhat short,) but it felt forced, like they just put out cd's to keep sales up. And the last few shows I went to, it was like I didn't even recognize the people who I considered to be fellow Juggalos. People were down right rude. This one "Juggalo" literally got pissed and told us to shut up because me and my friend were yelling and singing along with all of ICP's songs, but this dude was chanting "family" 20 minutes ago between sets? The thing that hurt and broke my idea of having this all loving enity to always watch my back the most was when this idiot beaned a girl in the head with a glass bud light bottle, and thought that shit was hilarous when she was escorted out of the venue by her boyfriend. All the people around him thought it was funny also, save a few. Maybe I'm just as bad because I did nothing to help, but I didn't laugh, which by others doing let him think it was okay and they approved.

    I didn't ask the guy if he was a juggalo, but he had face paint on and a charm, and was geared from head to toe, so I'm assuming, and the girl he hit, same deal. That's suppose to be my family, it made me take a critical look at Juggalos from that point on. Do I really want to be represented as that?

    I don't know, I feel mixed, because I do have great memories of the few gatherings I went to in the early 2000's, and the music and my friends were and integrel part of those good memories. I still were my charm, and I've still got my eyes open for "Juggalos" when I'm out, hoping to find ones that remind me of what it was all about....

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous, thank you for getting it.

    Someone on another site claimed that scenes change from a group of like-minded people to a "general term" to describe a general group of people. If that's true for juggalos, then juggalos in the general sense seem to have devolved into classless assholes, and have seemed to take a 180 turn away from what really made juggalos in the first place.

    It sucks that there are people on the outside looking in, and that they want to fit in. But if you don't actually feel it, the essentials, and the only reason you're feeling the "family" aspect is because you're lonely, then GTFO. Not saying you don't have juggalo friends, but don't call yourself one.

    And there are so many juggalos that say the term "juggalo" can't be defined. When, in reality, it's a pretty straight-forward definition to begin with. If it wasn't, do you really think it would have picked up so much steam?

    That comment reminds me of an email I received a few months back that I was going to post, but I never got around to doing. I'll put it up in a while. It's from a guy who was also appalled at the conduct of "juggalos" at shows.

    ReplyDelete
  10. i personnal am trying to weed out the fakes one at a time and one city at a time i just now completed weeding out my town. And you know something i have a question for you ( owner of website ) how can you be a "icp fan" but not a juggalo but yet your also saying your juggalo with out really saying.

    But see here in my town we have this code
    that no matter what if someone the fam needs
    help we help so if you need help im here just hit me up thanks and please answer my question

    ReplyDelete
  11. ICP are fucking genius, and they are role models *especially* to those of us who didn't stay in school, or who had fucked up childhoods.

    However, this blog is also genius. Please bring it back.

    BUT, the name *is* confusing and I can definitely see why Shaggy would comment the way he did. I wish you would have called it "JUGGALOS AGAINST ICP FANS."

    ReplyDelete

Search